Sufferfest on a CompuTrainer
(The Sufferfest ERG Spreadsheet has been updated a couple of times since the original version. The last couple of videos point out how critical it is to consider your personal power capabilities and the workout profile of each video when you set your power numbers in the spreadsheet)
As much as I hope to continue riding outside during the winter, the reality of winter in Ohio means I need a plan B. Last year I spent my trainer time putting myself through the pain of Sufferfest video workouts and spent more time on my trainer than I usually would. This year I’ve moved my indoor riding to a CompuTrainer and I have a pretty solid, power-based, workout plan to follow but I still want to include Sufferfest videos when they fit in the plan.
The Sufferfest workouts are interesting, challenging, motivational and, occasionally, fun. But, they suffer from the same problem as all “perceived exertion” based workouts. That is, they rely on me to determine if I’m working hard enough. I have great intentions when I talk about the workout and even when I climb on the bike, but when the screens says to go at level 9/10, am I really giving it 90% of my absolute best effort? So, with that in mind, I set out to combine the gut check of the Sufferfest video with the technology of the CompuTrainer.
The rest of this post has some of the details behind this project but, if you really don’t care how all of this works, just download the ERG Spreadsheet, read the short instructions in the file and get on your bike.
The CompuTrainer can be used in multiple ways. In addition to recording data for future analysis, it can be connected to a computer and programmed to generate a specific pattern of load/resistance. It is possible to configure a workout based on grade, distance and wind speed or, in the case of my plans for the Sufferfest, it can be programmed to generate specific wattage loads for certain amounts of time, in very fine increments. The data for programming the CompuTrainer in this way comes from a specifically formatted text file called an ERG file. An ERG file contains a header with information about the workout data and the workout data itself, indicating how many watts to produce for what period of time. Depending on the format of the data, the wattage will either remain constant for a period of time, gradually increase or decrease from one time point to the next or make a quick step change from one wattage to another.
My initial goal was to create an ERG file to match each of the Sufferfest videos. I could start the ERG session when I started the video and the computer would automatically adjust the resistance load on the trainer to match the recommended level of exertion on the video. Sounded simple enough. It was simply a matter of recording the time stamps in the video when each exertion level change occurred, determine what my wattage needed to be for each level and then create an ERG file with that information.
Almost immediately, I started to complicate the plan. As the winter season wears on, I hope that my power output will increase. So, the watts I’ll use in October will probably not match the watts I’ll want to use in December. That means making dozens of changes to each file every time I want a harder (or easier) workout. What if some of my friends want to use the files on their CompuTrainers? How would they use their power data, which is guaranteed to be different from mine? So, I began to work on how to automate the process of generating each ERG file.
I ended up with a spreadsheet that asks the rider for 3 pieces of information. Functional Threshold Power (FTP), the percentage of FTP that represents a perceived exertion level of 3/10 (easy recovery) and the percentage of FTP that represents a level of 10/10 (maximum exertion). I chose FTP because it is a value that is commonly used with power-based training and is remeasured and adjusted at various points in a training plan. As FTP changes during the year, it is a simple matter to change that one number in the spreadsheet and automatically recalculate all of the Sufferfest ERG files. I also made an executive decision to use 3/10 as the easy recovery base, even though there are a few places in some of the videos where level 2 or even level 1 are suggested. If you really need to go below level 3 to recover, just adjust that value lower when you set up the data.
Once that data has been filled in, the tab for each video will contain text that can be cut and pasted into a file to be used with the CompuTrainer Coaching software. Unless I got a time stamp wrong, the only editing necessary in the file is to set the 3 starting data points.
In order to give me time to start the video and then switch over to the CompuTrainer Coaching software to start the ERG File, I picked a place in the video where I can start the workout (by pressing F1 on the controller). The workout start is after the introductory screens and, in each case, is the point where the title of the video first appears on the screen. The exact time to start the workout is listed on the spreadsheet tab for each video. The time offset can easily be modified if you want to start the workout as soon as the video starts.
I’ve posted the file for anyone to try. Keep in mind that it isn’t intended to be a scientific, power-based workout. I simply wanted to use the technology of the CompuTrainer to take the guesswork (or cheating, depending on how you look at it) out of the perceived exertion guidelines in the video. It’s up to the rider to determine what their recovery and maximum levels should be. It’s a geek thing. Enjoy. Or suffer. Or both.
Tagged with: CompuTrainer • Sufferfest • Training
Filed under: Fitness • Technology
That is exactly how I had thought of it when I saw the scale and prompts combined with PE numbers on the SufferFest vids. I wanted to use with my CT in ERG mode and in Multirider sessions with 6 to 8 riders. You were brave and patient enough to construct the ERGs. I even have ERG+ from TrainingPeaks which makes the construct a little easier…Well Done..great leveraging of two very different cycling training tools.
As an aside, it seems odd that I did not try this, as I do convert GPS file to CRS files (using CRS+) for the CT, which is more time consuming and tedious. Again NICE JOB!
Great job, you are dead on by setting up the .erg files to make sure a “9” is a “9” on the intervals. Can’t wait to give it a try tomorrow on my computrainer running GoldenCheetah
Hi,
Can you please tell me how you converted .ERG file to the .CSV file to be used my GoldenCheetah?
It is simple to also make that 7, 8, 9 or 10 a little more intense by increasing the Max Power % of FTP from say 120% to 150%.
Yep, that’s why I made the max and min settings variable. Dial in as much suffering as you want.
I’ve done pretty much the same thing with the “new competitor” program from Time Crunched Cyclist book. Your file is visually more appealing and I will definitely use it to complement my training. thanks !
This is totally awesome. I have a question though; on the Mac if I copy and paste the yellow portion into a text edit text file it seems that that golden cheetah will not recognize the file (name the file .erg) obviously I am doing something wrong? Any ideas?
I’m afraid I don’t know much about Macs and nothing about Golden Cheetah. I use the erg files with the CompuTrainer Coaching Software on a Windows laptop. It sounds like you’ve covered the 2 things that I’ve seen cause problems. Some people use a word processor and save the file as text, but still end up with a couple of extra characters in the file. Also, the default Windows text editor will sometimes add a .txt extension so you end up with a file called angels.erg.txt. Both of those situations can cause problems.
I didn’t realize that Golden Cheetah was capable of controlling the CompuTrainer with an erg file. I thought it only did data analysis.
Yes, Golden Cheetah has supported a CompCS ‘like’ display with Computrainers since December 2009. We recently added video support (in version 3).
The only problem with the spreadsheet is it is not synced with the start of the video. i would prefer the erg file to start from the very beginning of the video and use it as a gentle warmup.
I find getting the erg file synced with the video is otherwise prone to error.
But, hey, thank you so much for doing this .. it has saved us so much hassle.
Yeah, I finally got my copy of GC to find the ERG file but was never successful at getting it to read anything from the CompuTrainer in real time so I gave up. I’ll play with it again on one of my Linux machines some day but the Coaching Software that came with it works fine for me.
I started out with the video and the ERG file starting at the same time but, invariably, I ended up messing around with resizing windows, moving screens to the external display, tweaking volume, yada yada and decided it was easier, for me, if I didn’t have to do everything all at once. Since I have the exact time identified to start the video, it’s pretty easy for me to watch the timer on the screen and press “Start” at the right time. I don’t have any problem doing an easy warm-up while the video starts and then starting the workout after all of the introductory marketing stuff is out of the way. Most times I do my warm-up first, set my Rolling Resistance and then start the video. By that point, I want to get right to the workout so I skip through the beginning part of the video.
James I had the same issue, but when I cut & paste using notepad from windows the file saved and read correctly. I assume it has to do with the line breaks at the end of each line…they seem to be different when using mac vs. PC.
I have it working fine with computrainer coaching software 1.6 running in VM Fusion.
hey James email me and I can take a look at what you might be doing wrong. I modified the spreadsheet to produce a .mrc file that is based on my FTP that I adjust on GoldenCheetah. This means I have only one workout file based on % of FTP and it automatically adjusts the computrainer to the proper load for the rider that is using it. I have 4 different people that ride my CT. One other suggestion James, duplicate an existing .erg file that you know works, then copy Teds code (just the time and watts over the existing code on the old worksheet. email is ty then the symbol tyhensley dot (com not net)
ty hensley… can you post or send me the spread sheet? I’m adjusting the times for the GC, if it is already done, I would like to save myself the work.
Coolest way to suffer yet!!
Ted
I have an old computrainer unit with a handlebar controller. Is it too old school to run off the computer. If not, how do I do it?
Many thanks
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!
This is the greatest thing EVAR!!!
Ha! Glad you find it useful. I’ll be adding the erg data for the new Hell Hath No Fury video soon.
I hope there a few things out there higher up on the greatness scale than Sufferfest workouts.
Thanks for sharing this! I used it with Angels and it was spot on. Too bad my CT decided it had had enough during the last 8 minute interval.
ARRRRGGGG!
Any plans to update for Hell Hath No Fury?
Sorry just saw your comment on updating…………
I finished logging the time stamps for Hell Hath No Fury. I need to do one last run through and then I’ll post an updated spreadsheet. Should be available today or tomorrow
Very well done. Did Angels, spot on. I calculated the TSS of the various workouts and they look all spot on. Great job and thanks for sharing.
Ted,
Awesome for putting this out. I looked at the structure of the erg file and it looks like it set up with four parameters: start/stop time and start/stop power. In your files it appears (I did not look at all of them) that the start/stop power is the same in all cases. Could you modify this and the CT would “ramp” to the end power?
Example:
21.32 200
29.12 250 (in this case power would linearly increase over the 8 seconds)
Does it work this way? Or do the start/stop power numbers have to match? Thanks!
Yes, an erg file can increase in steps (like my spreadsheet) or it can gradually increase/decrease from one wattage to another. Of course, you can mix the methods, depending on the workout you want. I used a step change because the videos make specific RPE changes at specific times. It doesn’t make much sense to attack gradually over a period of time. However, the time setting in the file are in decimal minutes, not seconds. A change from 21.32 to 29.12 is just under 8 minutes.
Any plans for one for the Extra Shot?
Yep. Work has been crazy so I’ve been avoiding my computer when I go home. But, I’ll be putting an updated version of the spreadsheet up this weekend.
Have you tried out Extra Shot? Based on the % of FTP used it is impossible to do if you entered your correct FTP. The formula most folks use, and if anything overestimates your FTP, is 95% of your 20 minute power. If you can do the 20 minutes at the levels specified then your FTP is higher than you thought….
Jeff, you’ve hit on the problem with converting perceived exertion to absolute power numbers. The one thing my spreadsheet doesn’t account for (although I’m working on a way to handle it) is fatigue. Using RPE only, the definition of any particular exertion level is subjective. What counts as 8/10 at the beginning of a workout does not, necessarily, mean the same thing 50 minutes into the workout. But, it does when you use purely absolute calculations. I think it’s possible to go 20 minutes “as hard as you can” and that would be 10/10. But, it’s definitely not going to be at 130% of your FTP. My approach is to tweak my max watts percentage based on the workout. If David comes up with something, like Extra Shot, that just doesn’t work with absolute power numbers, I adjust my numbers down and I still end up in a puddle on the floor.
I’ve “improved” the spreadsheet so that you can set the start time to an arbitrary value (0 if you’re playing the erg file in GC along with the video). Contact me if you’d like a copy (gmd at kurai dot org).
Graham, I’ve added a similar feature to the next version (finishing up the Extra Shot timing today). I had a couple of requests to start the workout at the beginning of the video. Personally, I’m not coordinated enough to start them both at the same time, which is why I built in the delay, but I’m happy to give people the choice. Take a look when I get the next version posted and let me know if it works for you.
That looked great, but after a while riding, and comparing outdoor power numbers with the numbers here, I’m realizing that assuming a linear scale for wattage following RPE doesn’t really represent what happens “in the wild”, so to speak, i.e., if I set the scale so that my 10/10 effort is 160% of FTP (say sprinting at 400 watts), I’m going to get killed trying to do the longer efforts at 8.5, but setting that RPE to something reasonable leaves me wanting on the high end.
So I’ve rejigged the formula on the power settings page to follow an exponential curve for power in relation to RPE which looks like
=(3^(($CURRENT_RPE-$MAX_RPE)/$MAX_RPE))*$FTP
3 was just a constant that I found worked (give values for RPE of 3 => 53%, RPE 10 => 160%). I’m going to try it out this week and see how it feels.
Graham, Glad you found something that works for you. I never attempted to recreate what happens in the wild since that can never happen indoors, on a trainer. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t taking it easy when the videos got tougher. I’ve never had the problem of any of the workouts leaving me wanting. At 140% for max effort, I get all I can handle.
I know what you mean, Graham. I think that’s a great idea. I might try your formula or something similar. I’ve been running them with a max=120%. The sprints indeed feel ‘light’ but if I run at 140% the longer intervals of around 5mins are pretty much not doable. I actually didn’t use the sheet per se, as I’ve been using the files that come with PerfPRO Studio, though they seem to correspond to 120% max. They may share geneology with Ted’s sheet, for all I know. I started bumping up the FTP manually a bunch for the sprints, though that clearly isn’t going to be tenable longer-term. I may use the formula you came up with (or something similar) to have a bigger gap on the true sprints. In any event, thanks a ton, Ted. Great work.
Ted –
Thanks for the spreadsheet – It worked great! Sufferfest is kind of like a spinning class – it just gets harder and harder – I was not ready for it when the computrainer was slaved to specific power outputs!
I was using Multirider 2009 and I am not sure this allows you to change power from the handlebar unit – may try to install Golden Cheetah.
Has anyone created any files for the Real Rides series of videos from Robbie Ventura?
I’d love to be able to use them with TrainerRoad. I can confirm that the video definitely runs in their player…
Thanks in advance!
Delane
Any thought on how to do this for CycleOps Powerbeam trainers?
I don’t have any information on the Powerbeam trainers, so I haven’t considered how to make that work. Any idea if there is a file format, similar to the ERG or MRC files, that works with the CycleOps trainer?
You can upload workouts into the Joule from training peaks so i would think you can. not sure.
You know whats coming next……..
Any plans for v4 and “The Long Scream”?
I’m sure I will add it to the list. I was hoping David might cut me a break and get me an early copy but, no such luck. Not sure if I’ll have time to work through it this week, but probably over the weekend.
OK, I’m a computer illiterate. How do you go from a text file (notepad/wordpad?) to a .erg file?
It’s just how you name it. Copy the data from the spreadsheet and paste it into a blank notepad document. Then just save the file with a .erg extension, instead of .txt. The Coaching software won’t see the file unless it has a .erg extension.
Be careful with notepad. When you are saving the file there is a box for filename, where you will put something like Angels.erg. Under that is a pulldown labeled “Save as type” Make sure you change that to “All files (*.*)”. If you don’t, notepad will name the file Angels.erg.txt. Windows will hide the .txt extension by default, so the file will look right, but the coaching software will not find it.
Ted, thank you very much for putting together a very nice, easy to use spreadsheet that allows you to input various variables to help make the Sufferfest videos work seamlessly with my Computrainer. If you are ever in Minnesota, please let me know, I would like to buy you a cold one!
This looks terrific! Any plans on making a modification that is TACX fortius compatible? Anyone else had any luck linking sufferfest videos in a similar fashion within TACX catalyst?
Thanks!
I’m afraid I don’t know anything about the Tacx data format. I created this spreadsheet to work with the CompuTrainer because I have one and it was something I’d use.
Hi, I’m trying to convert this excellent excel sheet to TACX Catalyst format and it looks like I’m almost there. Will have to tweak timestamps manually (Tacx uses HH:MM:SS) but the rest should be 90% a reuse.
The time stamps are already there in HH:MM:SS format so you shouldn’t have to do too much manual work. Good luck with it.
Manual work is done. I just have to ad 8 seconds Tacx needs for start up (including 5 seconds countdown), do some testing and describe the procedures to follow. This should work in Tacx TTS software versions 3.x (probably also in 2.x) Not sure about 4.x.
I’ll post a link when ready and tested.
While I was editing the file I noticed a problem at the end of the “Extra Shot The Long Scream”. The end-time (0:32:57) for the sprint is earlier then the start time (0:32:58).
I don’t have this video yet, so can’t verify the correct timestamps.
I knew that, sooner or later, someone would find a mistake in the timestamps somewhere. Thanks. I’ll take a look at that when I get home.
I fixed the timing problem on the Long Scream tab.
Hey Jurgen,
Great job on the conversion from Computrainer to Catalyst format. I’m looking forward to the conversion and i’m eager to test it. I use version TTS2 so I can let you know if it works for that as well.
Thanks in advance,
Djurre
Tried Hell Hath No Fury this morning and it kicked my ass…
Will have to dial in the numbers and train harder.
I played the Sufferfest video with vlc and it was in sync for the complete training.
Good luck and feedback is always welcome.
Thanks Ted for doing all the hard work in advance!
Just a quick comment. Jurgen was kind enough to include a link to his Tacx spreadsheet. However, as a general policy, I don’t allow links in comments when I don’t control the content of the link. Believe me, it’s not personal. Perhaps Jurgen will provide an email address where you can reach him directly (I’ll do my best to keep it from being harvested by spammers).
Hi Ted,
I understand your viewpoint.
It’s OK if you put the file on this site.
If that’s not possible you can put my mail address – jurgen272 at hotmail dot com – in this thread.
Regards,
Jurgen
@Ted I understand your policy, no problem.
@Jurgen could you send me a mail with the link?
djurre.hoekstra(at)gmail(dot)com
Thanks!
Any plans to do the new sufferfest video?
Yeah, as soon as I have some free time. Hopefully this weekend. I have the video but I’ve been using TrainerRoad and haven’t spent the time stepping through the video for the spreadsheet.
Cheers, not convinced on trainer road!
It seems to work well with the Sufferfest videos and give me the ability to pause the workout and adjust the power target on the fly during the workout. The choice of individual workouts is good but whether they are effective or not will be based on the plan you’re following.
Are you going to update to include “There is no Try”?
Yes. I have the time splits done and I just need to format it for the final version. I expect to do that after work tomorrow. I haven’t had time to ride it after creating the erg file, but I’ll go ahead and get it uploaded. I’m sure I’ll hear about it if I screwed up the timing somewhere.
The ERG File spreadsheet has been updated to include the newest video, There Is No Try.
Your erg files are great. What do you suggest for Rubber Glove as far as erg. May be a flat course on the computrainer?
Thanks. I think you need to do Rubber Glove in Slope mode with a slight grade of 2-3%. It’s the only way you can go harder than the calculated wattage.
I have done all your erg files with max FTP at 140% and minimum at 50%. My training partners all agree that the PRE of 3 at 50% FTP is perfect, any less and you might as well get off the bike. We also test Rubber Glove on a 40k flat course every month and adjust to the new FTP. The debate is the PRE of 10 at 140% FTP. I know you stated there is no research behind the 140% BUT, what made you choose 140%? It is nearly impossible to hold 140% late in the video/ride, but, may be that is the plan.
I put 140 in the spreadsheet primarily so there would be a number in the field and the calculations wouldn’t generate errors. I expect everyone to pick a number that makes sense for them. I picked a number that put an RPE of 7 somewhere near the FTP entry on the sheet. When I made the spreadsheet there were only a few Sufferfest videos available and 140 was the top end of what I could do at the time. With the current library of videos, I’d probably pick 125 or 130 to make it through the later stages. I’m currently working on a modification to the spreadsheet that will let you drop the wattage by a given percentage near the end of the video, to account for the fact that fatigue changes perceived exertion over time. I’m just trying to decide if it should happen 2/3 or 3/4 of the way through the workout. Of course, you can always leave it at 0 and suffer more.
Thanks for the Erg files Ted ! I bought the new video Elements of style, do you know if i can get an Erg files for my computrainer for this video ?
I haven’t purchased the most recent couple of videos yet, so the spreadsheet is a bit out of date. Since I started using TrainerRoad I don’t use it, but I do plan on getting it updated as soon as I spend the money and can sit down for the time it takes to go through each video. I’ve been working on a modification that would let you scale back the last X% of the workout by some percentage to account for the difference in perceived exertion between the beginning and the end of a workout. Just haven’t decided yet on what X should be. Probably either 66% or 75% of the way through the video. Since you asked about a specific video, I’ll try to get it to the top of the pile.